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Post by duke on Mar 10, 2012 20:58:43 GMT -5
Announcement Expected Next Week On Launch Of STEM School By County Schools Governor Expected To Attend Event At Chattanooga State Friday, March 09, 2012 An announcement is expected next week on the launch of a STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) School by the Hamilton County Schools on the campus of Chattanooga State Community College campus. Rick Smith, county school superintendent, told members of the Brainerd Kiwanis Club on Friday that Governor Bill Haslam is expected to attend the event. School officials have been pursuing a $1.85 million state grant for the project. The superintendent said the innovative new school will be in 17,000 square feet of space in the Wacker Training Center. chattanoogan.com/2012/3/9/221208/Announcement-Expected-Next-Week-On.aspx
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Post by Fredo on Mar 10, 2012 22:54:18 GMT -5
I find myself conflicted about the rise of charter and magnet schools in our area. On one hand, I believe that we need to grow out of the top down government controlled education model but, at present, most of the steps toward that goal are doing little besides skimming the good parents off the top and leaving schools with unprepared kids and uninvolved parents. Maybe it's just growing pains but those pains are going to cost me a ton. My boys are zoned for an elementary school that has straight F's on it's report card and is 92% economically disadvantaged(whatever that means). I simply cannot allow them to go there but there's no other public alternative, even thought I pay the outrageous taxes that support the system. I think it's time to start working on vouchers.
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 11, 2012 0:59:02 GMT -5
My boys are zoned for an elementary school that has straight F's on it's report card and is 92% economically disadvantaged(whatever that means). Where are such report cards and percentages published?
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Post by Fredo on Mar 11, 2012 7:53:43 GMT -5
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Post by duke on Mar 11, 2012 8:37:56 GMT -5
Fredo: Perhaps your kids will qualify for the new school. Why should all the smart kids in Hamilton county be forced into schools dumbed down to the lowest common denominator? The smarter kids should have the opportunity to advance to the best of their ability. I have been in schools where the teachers would suppress any kid that attempted to advance ahead of the class.
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Post by Fredo on Mar 11, 2012 10:02:13 GMT -5
My oldest is only 3 so I've got time to work this out but I don't see the problem getting any better. For now, he's enrolled in montessori school so I'm covered until grade one. It just annoys me that my choices are to wrangle my way into one of the magnet schools, throw him in with the ghetto kids or write an enormous check for private school.
At the rate we're going, a two tiered public education system is nearly unavoidable. Maybe it's for the best to separate the kids without involved parents from those with. Less distractions that way.
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 12, 2012 11:38:22 GMT -5
Maybe it's for the best to separate the kids without involved parents from those with. Less distractions that way. are you saying that the government should be in the business of classifying parents into categories of "involved" and "not involved" in order to create a 2-tiered system of public education? That seems pretty heavy-handed to say the least. In fact, it sounds like the total opposite of "small government" to me.
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Post by Fredo on Mar 12, 2012 11:50:59 GMT -5
It's effectively what's happening now. Involved parents with the means to do so abandoned public schools years ago. Involved parents of lesser means have developed a system of charter and magnet schools which allow them to separate their children from the ghetto kids who's parents don't bother to prepare them for school or impose discipline.
There's a good argument for the idea that we should just admit what's happening and adjust funding, zoning and facilities to reflect that fact.
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 12, 2012 12:18:30 GMT -5
There's a good argument for the idea that we should just admit what's happening and adjust funding, zoning and facilities to reflect that fact. There is a better argument that creating and reinforcing a two-tiered system will create and exacerbate deeper cultural and socioeconomic fissures within our society, and that will harm everyone, both rich and poor.
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Post by Fredo on Mar 12, 2012 12:28:00 GMT -5
So long as upward mobility is available in the system, it's merely recognizing a fact rather than reinforcing it. The primary difference between the local schools is that the magnets require parental involvement.
It would be an easy sell to add staff to the lesser supported schools for the staff that they need to handle the problem kids. Why should one group suffer for another's lack of parenting?
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 12, 2012 12:33:30 GMT -5
Why should one group suffer for another's lack of parenting? Because at the end of the day, we live in a society in which all of our fates are inextricably linked, and the future of the privileged is inexorably tied to the future of the poor. Walking away from large chunks of our young people and relegating them to second-class status in the most formative period of their human development - simply on the basis of the actions of their parents - is as thoroughly un-American an idea as I can imagine.
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Post by Fredo on Mar 12, 2012 13:06:00 GMT -5
If that's the case, you're not very imaginative.
I'm not advocating for ceasing public education for the children of the disinterested. My point is that we should at least consider allowing people to self categorize when it comes to their children's education. If I'm going to be denied the decent public education that I'm paying for, I think it's fair that the people who are denying it to me should shoulder some responsibility as well.
It's simple really.
Want to go to the better school, with the better teachers and the greater chance of a good education? Contribute a couple of hours a week to school activities and keep your little cherub in line.
Don't care what sort of education Jr. gets because you're only sending him to school because the mean ole government makes you? Send him to the regular school where he'll be taught all of the state minimum curriculum by the teachers who don't mind playing zoo keeper more than they teach.
Both cost the same.
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 12, 2012 13:29:48 GMT -5
If I'm going to be denied the decent public education that I'm paying for, I think it's fair that the people who are denying it to me should shoulder some responsibility as well. It's simple really. I don't think that it's as "simple" as you say. Just exactly how do you make the determination between people who you think "deserve" access to a higher tier of public education and those who you deem "unworthy" of such an opportunity? A government agency that classifies children as Tier I or Tier II based on the kinds of parents that they have? So you think that the government should compel parents to "volunteer"? Even parents who have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet? That's not exactly a model of small government, now is it? Besides, you might want to ask a few principals and teachers how they would feel having to manage hundreds of parental "volunteers" who are compelled to show up to "help out". Nice straw man there. You are creating a false dichotomy to reinforce the assertion that you think that you somehow deserve more from public institutions than other people do.
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Post by Fredo on Mar 12, 2012 14:43:15 GMT -5
People already self segregate along those lines. Nobody has to tell them who they are.
The principals and teachers at the local magnet schools are perfectly happy to have parental volunteers doing some of the non teaching work that takes up too much of their time. If you want to go the school for your choice, that's part of the package. If not, head on down to the school for the disinterested and take your chances.
Again, why should I not be entitled to the public education for which I am required to pay? Why should the ghetto parents be allowed to yellow the water for the rest of us?
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 12, 2012 15:01:24 GMT -5
People already self segregate along those lines. When it comes to choosing public schools? How so? Ask the principal and school officials if they have the capacity and/or the need to handle hundreds of "forced volunteers" and see if you get a very different response. Oh please. Millions of people who don't even have children in schools are also paying for the public schools system. You think because you pay taxes that other taxpayers should subsidize your "right" to access a "special" tier of public schools that children of people who you feel are "beneath you" cannot access?
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Post by Fredo on Mar 12, 2012 16:18:38 GMT -5
You could not seriously this obtuse. Virtually nobody is.
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 12, 2012 17:01:41 GMT -5
You could not seriously this obtuse. Virtually nobody is. There is nothing "obtuse" about anything I have written; in fact, the "obtuseness" I see here is your claim to have a "right" to relegate the children of people you don't like to an inferior educational environment on a completely arbitrary basis.
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Post by Fredo on Mar 12, 2012 19:41:23 GMT -5
Well, if you weren't some sort of weird agent provocateur on the payroll of who knows what organization, you would already know that both of the school types that I mentioned are already in operation, within the public school system, in our fair city and the only distinction would be to admit that this is the system that we have in place and allocate resources according to the facts as they already are.
The ghetto kids are going to need more free lunches and more staff to keep them in line. The decently raised kids are going to need more dynamic environments and a curriculum that 's not geared toward the lowest common denominator. If we admit what's actually happening and allocate our resources toward that reality, both groups will be better served.
Schools themselves and the classes within them will function much more smoothly if we segregate the students according t their abilities. Not the least of those abilities is going to be the capacity to show up at school on time and prepared to be a proper student.
If the school system can't provide that, then I should, at the very least, be entitled to reclaim a portion of my contribution to the system and apply it to one that is fully functioning.
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 12, 2012 20:10:54 GMT -5
Well, if you weren't some sort of weird agent provocateur on the payroll of who knows what organization, you would already know that both of the school types that I mentioned are already in operation, within the public school system, in our fair city and the only distinction would be to admit that this is the system that we have in place and allocate resources according to the facts as they already are. The ghetto kids are going to need more free lunches and more staff to keep them in line. The decently raised kids are going to need more dynamic environments and a curriculum that 's not geared toward the lowest common denominator. If we admit what's actually happening and allocate our resources toward that reality, both groups will be better served. Well, when it comes to matters of "allocation of resources", the devil is usually in the details. When there is a live proposal to actually debate, we will see how it shakes out. In the meantime, howling at the moon over dreaded "ghetto kids" is prejudicial, dog-whistling, hollow posturing. meh. It has all the facile banality of a bumper sticker, but it's too long. You want a refund for tax money that you perceive as not being applied in your best interest? LOL don't we all! I guess you want to return revenues to people who don't have school-age kids.....speakingfor myself I would be planning early retirement with my rebate check for the Iraq war alone. Don't hold you breath.
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Post by copperhead on Mar 12, 2012 21:22:32 GMT -5
As to volunteering at your child's school - Back in the "olden days", perhaps 30 years ago, volunteers were organized for schools through their PTAs. While at that time there were many more mothers who did not work outside the home, this opportunity is still present today. Granted there are parents who work multiple jobs. This is true at the magnet school that both of my children attend. It's not just the parents who can volunteer but other adult family members as well. There are multiple opportunities to volunteer without ever spending more than 5 minutes at the school (droping-off or picking-up the child(ren) from school). I've employed some of these methods while working more than one job and not having any assistance with volunteer hours earlier in the game.
As I've spent time at the school, it has enabled me to see what actually happens in the school. It provides me - and other parents - with the opportunity to see the actual condition of the school. It connects us to the school and gives us even more reason to become involved. Parents become well acquainted with the faculty and staff and even know the other students and their parents. A community is formed.
I've thought for some time, why don't we require volunteer hours for parents? And - something even more radical - when we find something that works at one school, why aren't we copying it and trying it at other schools? All I've seen here in this area is a continual attempt to tear down the successful schools in this area. If we copy what works, perhaps we can make all of the schools great and we might not need magnet schools. As Fredo stated, the best parents wind up being skimmed off the top by the magnet schools. My children are zoned for the same schools as his. At this time, there's no way I'd send either of mine to these schools. We will stay at our cuturally and financially diverse magnet school.
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Post by Fredo on Mar 13, 2012 13:54:09 GMT -5
You must be a mean ole snob who just wants to keep the poor kids down. ;D
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Post by copperhead on Mar 13, 2012 21:16:42 GMT -5
Yeah, that's me, an elitist, preppy snob!
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Post by Fredo on Mar 13, 2012 23:06:31 GMT -5
Yeah, that's me, an elitist, preppy snob! I knew it! There's absolutely no chance that a person could wish to obtain a proper education for his children without being a mean ole booger eating elitist yuppie scum type who's primary goal is to apply his boot heel to the necks of the poor, forgotten, oppressed, downtrodden, ignored, subjugated, enslaved, put upon American "poor". For shame. I'm embarrassed to even know you.
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Post by vimeiro on Mar 14, 2012 7:54:25 GMT -5
Wow, you really torched that strawman you built! Nice work!
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Post by copperhead on Mar 15, 2012 21:34:51 GMT -5
Yeah, that's me, an elitist, preppy snob! I knew it! There's absolutely no chance that a person could wish to obtain a proper education for his children without being a mean ole booger eating elitist yuppie scum type who's primary goal is to apply his boot heel to the necks of the poor, forgotten, oppressed, downtrodden, ignored, subjugated, enslaved, put upon American "poor". For shame. I'm embarrassed to even know you. LOL I'm such an elitest that I want to copy the good that these schools are doing & share it with zoned schools. Right....
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