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Post by Motherjones on Oct 18, 2012 15:53:44 GMT -5
Pretty much everyone else saw a close race. Wishful thinking from a lockstep pro-Romney partisan. The debate saw Gov. Romney hang himself on several key issues, and he sowed the seeds for future headaches by alienating independents with disrespectful behavior, flip-flopping on issues of equal pay for women and access to contraceptives, an utterly unworkable economic "plan" and an open admission that, despite 25 years of "business experience" (mostly comprised of using obscure provisions of the tax code to suck companies and workers dry), he knew so few competent professional women that he had to consult "binders of women" in order to fill spots in his Massachusetts gubernatorial administration. These things might have been lost on you and other Romney zombies, but they are areas of great concern for large numbers of voters and will very likely hurt Gov. Romney pretty badly going forward.
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Post by Motherjones on Oct 18, 2012 16:24:44 GMT -5
And just wait until next week when the topic is foreign policy. Romney's foreign policy team is overwhelmingly stacked with extremist officials from the George W. Bush administration - likely the most failed, disgraced, incompetent and deeply unpopular foreign policy administration in US history.
We all saw what kind of unholy mess these people got us into; we're barely even beginning to climb out of it. Giving these wild-eyed radicals control over the foreign policy apparatus of the US to provoke war with Iran, Syria, etc. would be a *monumental* mistake.
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Post by dino on Oct 18, 2012 17:42:43 GMT -5
The polls show that Obama didn't turn it around in the last debate..and I think team Obama is having it's biggest 'oh shit' moment since the fincancial crash happened during his previous campagn. They never thought the race would tighten up this much with Romney being ahead in many polls...even though he(Romney) is a crappy candidate and has a horrible team of advisers. Obama is out pounding the ground begging for votes everyday. If he thought he was going to win by a landslide he has a funny way of showing it.
Bill Clinton is out there telling people that 'it isn't fixed'...and I don't see one ounce of leadership in Obama that tells me that in another four years he could make any faster progress than he made in his first term.
He acts like he hates the job of being president, that is doing the real work, but he loves creating the facade and the spectacle.
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Post by dino on Oct 18, 2012 18:09:45 GMT -5
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Post by duke on Oct 18, 2012 22:17:50 GMT -5
Obama Seizes the Upper Hand By Howard Kurtz, The Daily Beast 16 October 12 readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/14020-obama-seizes-the-upper-hand Using newfound energy to slice up Romney's record, the president forced his rival on the defensive. Howard Kurtz on the impact of the second debate. arack Obama came to play in the second presidential debate Tuesday night, unleashing a series of attacks against Mitt Romney that accused him of favoring the rich and "extreme" social policies. Romney got in the president's face more than once, repeatedly challenging him and at one point refusing to let him break in: "You'll get your chance in a moment, I'm still speaking." It was a power move that temporarily silenced Obama. But what became the flashpoint of the debate was when Romney claimed that the president had not initially called the attack on American diplomats in Libya an act of terror, only to be corrected by moderator Candy Crowley-which immediately drew complaints from GOP partisans. Romney again turned in a solid performance here at Long Island's Hofstra University, but there was one stark difference from the faceoff in Denver: this time he had an active and engaged opponent. And as the evening wore on, Obama gradually took control, repeatedly forcing Romney to respond to his barrage and shifting the discussion firmly onto his turf. Compared to the lethargic figure of two weeks ago, it was as if the Obama campaign had sent a body double. Romney seemed off balance at times as he tried to regroup and regain the initiative. <snip>
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Post by Motherjones on Oct 18, 2012 22:40:47 GMT -5
I put more weight on Nate Silver's predictions, and while it's currently somewhat close, it's a clear advantage for President Obama. fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/And we've got another debate yet - on foreign policy, which is an area where Mitt Romney is extremely inexperienced and a carbon copy of the abysmally failed Bush administration.
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Post by Motherjones on Oct 18, 2012 22:57:25 GMT -5
The polls show that Obama didn't turn it around in the last debate..and I think team Obama is having it's biggest 'oh shit' moment since the fincancial crash happened during his previous campagn. Your memory is not accurate on the issues. The "oh shit" moment during the last campaign was not within the Obama campaign, but rather within the Bush administration, which enabled the financial crisis and exacerbated it by creating huge deficits with two unfunded wars, Medicare Part D on the national credit card, and huge bailouts to the banks. The President is still ahead in the key electoral college polls. and at any rate, everyone has expected the election to be very close all along. The President's strong showing in the home stretch, however, is likely to provide him with a convincing margin of victory. advisers who would become administration and take us directly back to the policies of the failed and disgraced Bush administration. I am glad that he is out campaigning hard and talking to the people. Not the way that a President who takes his re-election for granted would act, now is it? I don't think he ever thought that. Why do you? I see far more leadership in the President than in Gov. Romney, who only promises a return to Bush-era policies that wrecked the US economy and left us in expensive, bloody foreign policy quagmires. So you criticize him for campaigning hard and "pounding the ground" and then a few sentences later you criticize him for not being enthusiastic enough about his candidacy. Perhaps you should make up your mind! Either way, it's clear - he's not the candidate who has written off 47% of the American population as "moochers" - he's out fighting for 100% of the American people and seeking forward-looking solutions rather than old, tired and discredited Bush-era policies like Gov. Romney.
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Post by dino on Oct 22, 2012 8:39:11 GMT -5
Another debate and I don't see any gains from it favoring Obama but Romney could eek out a solid lead. Even John Harwood, liberal left wing reporter for MSNBC, said this morning that the race is neck and neck...and he's neck deep in the campaign everyday.
A certain poster on this forum claimed the previous debate could be the beginning of an Obama landslide....but Romney is even gaining in the female vote in the polls. Potential voters are wanting more from Obama than continuing what he has started and they are not seeing him doing anything different, this is also showing in the polls. Think the 47% faux argument is dead now. Try to catch up.
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Post by Motherjones on Oct 22, 2012 9:34:53 GMT -5
Another debate and I don't see any gains from it favoring Obama but Romney could eek out a solid lead. Even John Harwood, liberal left wing reporter for MSNBC, said this morning that the race is neck and neck...and he's neck deep in the campaign everyday. The Obama administration has been saying for months that they expected a very close race. That prediction appears to be quite prescient. The gender gap is almost as extreme as it has ever been right now: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/gender-gap-near-historic-highs/If the election was only held among women, it would be a massive Obama landslide. Potential voters are also wanting Mitt Romney to stop posturing and flip-flopping and explaining his policy positions beyond simply complaining that President Obama is not cleaning up the mess his Republican predecessor made fast enough. Voters are not keen to return to failed Bush-era policies, but that's all that Mitt Romney has even come close to advocating. This, along with unpopular plans like turning medicare into a voucher system, privatizing social security, and provoking yet another cataclysmic war in the middle east, continues to plague him among independents. I think not. One cannot just "wish away" a Presidential candidate aggressively writing off nearly half of the country as moochers who won't take responsibility for themselves - especially when a huge proportion of that 47% is veterans, retirees who have worked their entire life, and the disabled. Perhaps you find it convenient to do so because it works against your preferred candidate, but the rest of the voting public does not engage in this type of willful 'Romnesia'.
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Post by dino on Oct 22, 2012 9:50:05 GMT -5
Nate is likely out to lunch by all accounts this go around. Dem oversampling of 9% going on in Ohio.
Obama will get drilled on Benghazi tonite which Obama still has not been able to swallow....even with Crowley covering for him in the last debate. Obama got sort of lucky there but Romney is prolly going to clear that up tonite.
Yes, Romney can't seem to land and stay on one side of an issue but is still giving the Obama team an 'oh shit' moment. Obama just can't put him away as bad as he is. Weak.
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Post by Motherjones on Oct 22, 2012 10:24:17 GMT -5
Nate is likely out to lunch by all accounts this go around. Dem oversampling of 9% going on in Ohio. Obama will get drilled on Benghazi tonite which Obama still has not been able to swallow....even with Crowley covering for him in the last debate. Obama got sort of lucky there but Romney is prolly going to clear that up tonite. I don't doubt that Romney will attempt to aggressively (and probably disrespectfully as is his habit) advance the same totally dishonest, fraudulent and cynical attacks on the Benghazi tragedy that he utterly botched in the last debate. If that's the kind of thing that turns you on as a voter, well, that says a lot about you - as does the fact that you characterize a simple fact check of an egregious lie by a neutral moderator as some kind of "political cover". The attempts by the Romney campaign to score political points on this topic are an appalling sham and such craven, incompetent tactics utterly disqualify Romney from holding the job of Commander in Chief. As I mentioned, the tightening was expected al along. The fact that Romney only proposes deeper debt, more war and taking away the only hope millions of Americans have for getting access to health insurance - yet still remains competitive in the race - is a testament to the power of lies, money, short-sighted cynicism and misinformation in today's politics. I remain hopeful that this strategy of deception will be rejected on election day.
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Post by Motherjones on Oct 22, 2012 10:32:46 GMT -5
Nate is likely out to lunch by all accounts this go around. You are calling Nate Silver "out to lunch"? LOL. Wow. So care to cite "all the accounts" of people who agree with you? According to whom? Ed Gillespie? LOL. Nice nonpartisan source there.
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Post by dino on Oct 22, 2012 10:55:25 GMT -5
Nate is likely out to lunch by all accounts this go around. You are calling Nate Silver "out to lunch"? LOL. Wow. So care to cite "all the accounts" of people who agree with you? According to whom? Ed Gillespie? LOL. Nice nonpartisan source there. Nate was correct in one election which was pretty easy to predict, his rise to prominence regarding that is laughable and in no way is a predictor that he is correct at the moment. Straw man. Gilespie, who knows, he is a shill for a Party. You espouse no fault(s) with Obama that might be the reason he is even with Romney yet you blame everything else. Interesting.
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Post by Motherjones on Oct 22, 2012 11:07:46 GMT -5
Nate was correct in one election which was pretty easy to predict, his rise to prominence regarding that is laughable and in no way is a predictor that he is correct at the moment. Sorry, but this is mere argument by assertion and innuendo. You claim that he is out to lunch "by all accounts", yet you provide no accounts, nor do you provide any substantive critique of Nate Silver's methodology whatsoever. Yep, he is. And you fail to provide a single nonpartisan source for your claim that Ohio polls are "oversampling" Democrats. Not true at all. I have many critiques of the Obama administration. I give them a passing grade, but with many reservations. But I see Romney's promises to aggressively return us to the failed policies of the Bush era, explode the federal debt, turn medicare into a voucher system, privatize social security, funnel more money to his plutocratic cronies and provoke more costly, bloody war, and I see a far, far more perilous pathway with Romney. Any gains that we have had under the Obama administration in climbing out of the disaster that was the Bush administration would be thrown away by a Romney administration - and it would only get worse from there. Romney's foreign policy team is heavily staffed by Bush retreads. If that doesn't scare the wits out of you, then you are simply not paying attention.
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Post by wheels on Oct 22, 2012 12:03:24 GMT -5
i didn't think either candidate performed particularly well. however, i would give this one to obama on a very thin margin. not a landslide by any means, but a slight win. anyone who says that either candidate "issued a solid beating" needs to lay off the kool-aid and come back from fantasy land. The louder the right-wing complains about distractions like Candy Crowley, etc., the more obvious it becomes that they know down deep that their guy got spanked and spanked HARD. When the GOP standard-bearer is bragging about ordering an affirmative action program for hiring in Massachusetts, he's enduring a beat-down. When the entire audience is laughing at Romney's failed effort to lie about the Libya attacks, he's enduring a beat-down. When Romney is avoiding any substantive discussion of how he is planning to pay for massive tax cuts on the wealthy and huge military expenditures - a plan that simply defies simple principles of arithmetic, then he is enduring a beat down. That's not kool-aid - that's just the plain facts. it's a good thing obama issued such a solid beating. he really needed that big surge he got. oh, wait...
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Post by dino on Oct 22, 2012 14:37:41 GMT -5
The louder the right-wing complains about distractions like Candy Crowley, etc., the more obvious it becomes that they know down deep that their guy got spanked and spanked HARD. When the GOP standard-bearer is bragging about ordering an affirmative action program for hiring in Massachusetts, he's enduring a beat-down. When the entire audience is laughing at Romney's failed effort to lie about the Libya attacks, he's enduring a beat-down. When Romney is avoiding any substantive discussion of how he is planning to pay for massive tax cuts on the wealthy and huge military expenditures - a plan that simply defies simple principles of arithmetic, then he is enduring a beat down. That's not kool-aid - that's just the plain facts. it's a good thing obama issued such a solid beating. he really needed that big surge he got. oh, wait... shhhhhhhh....MJ is desperately trying to convince him(her)self, do not disturb.
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Post by Motherjones on Oct 22, 2012 15:02:34 GMT -5
shhhhhhhh....MJ is desperately trying to convince him(her)self, do not disturb. I am not "trying to convince myself of anything", as you so desperately imagine. As I have demonstrated, it was a solid beat-down on the President's part, on both points and substance. That reality has seeped into the public consciousness over the last few days, and it has created the essential pre-conditions for a very big shift in favor of the President. People still think that the national numbers are close, and that's probably true. But Romney painted himself into several corners in the debate, and his shabby habit of just flat-out lying himself out of tight situations or obvious flip-flopping is becoming more obvious for all to see. That won't play well in the next 2 weeks; in fact, it these lies up upon lies might just blow up in Romney's face completely.
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