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Post by duke on Jun 27, 2012 17:20:29 GMT -5
Voter ID laws sweeping the nation are aimed at rigging the 2012 election in favor of Mitt Romney. But don't take my word for it – that's what one of the top Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania just admitted. Speaking to the Republican State Committee, Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai, told his colleagues that the recent Voter ID law passed by Republicans in the state will, "allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." Several studies, including one by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice, have found that Voter ID laws will take the right to vote away from tens of millions of Americans who don't own cars, hitting particularly hard low-income, minority, college student, and elderly voters – people who tend to vote for Democrats. And as one of the most influential Republican strategists of the last thirty years, Paul Weyirch, infamously observed – Republicans chances of winning elections go up, as the voting populace goes down. truth-out.org/news/item/10032-on-the-news-with-thom-hartmann-marriage-equality-is-gaining-support-among-young-republicans-and-more
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Post by elgusano on Jun 28, 2012 8:03:58 GMT -5
"Rigging" means "preventing illegal voters from buying amnesty".
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Post by duke on Jun 28, 2012 10:35:52 GMT -5
It was Gov. Rick Scott who last year initiated the push to find non-U.S. citizens on the voter rolls. Florida compared driver's license records with voter registration records and came up with the list of 182,000 registered voters who may not be U.S. citizens. The state did not send out the list because it was trying to access a federal immigration database to double-check the names. Instead, in April, the state sent out a list of more than 2,600 names to election supervisors. Since then, local supervisors have removed roughly 100 voters from the rolls for being non-U.S. citizens, though at the same time more than 500 voters have turned out to be citizens. www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/27/judge-refuses-to-block-florida-voter-purge/Throwing out the baby with the bath water is is not rigging the election?
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Post by wheels on Jun 28, 2012 11:54:06 GMT -5
if all of these people who don't have cars can make it to the polling locations, why can't they make it to the DMV?
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Post by duke on Jun 28, 2012 12:07:06 GMT -5
if all of these people who don't have cars can make it to the polling locations, why can't they make it to the DMV? Ever hear of absentee voting? There is no absentee ID card access.
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Post by Fredo on Jun 28, 2012 14:13:10 GMT -5
If you can't be troubled to get to the polls for five minutes every four years, I don't need your input. AS for absentee ballots, I don't see any problem with mailing one ballot to the official address of a registered voter.
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Post by duke on Jun 28, 2012 16:07:35 GMT -5
If you can't be troubled to get to the polls for five minutes every four years, I don't need your input. AS for absentee ballots, I don't see any problem with mailing one ballot to the official address of a registered voter. Some people have health issues that preclude traveling to the polls or it creates a much greater sacrifice than you or I would have. The beef is not in purging illegal voters, but the methods used are affecting legal 5 times more often than the number of illegal voters. The basis of the law may be valid, but without proper guidelines the implementation at the hand of political hacks is where the complaint lies and few, it appears, want to acknowledge that fact choosing rather raise some spurious issue.
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Post by Fredo on Jun 29, 2012 19:42:00 GMT -5
It's a proven fact that 83.4% of statistics are made up on the spot. I put your assertion into that category.
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Post by duke on Jun 29, 2012 20:29:38 GMT -5
Fredo: see my post in red posted yesterday @ 10:35 am 100 unlawful voters purged, 500 legit voters purged. Apply your math. Is 500 not 5 times more than 100? Try using a calculator 100 time 5. Please post the result here maybe in the form of a picture. :-)
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Post by Fredo on Jul 3, 2012 13:21:58 GMT -5
Fredo: see my post in red posted yesterday @ 10:35 am 100 unlawful voters purged, 500 legit voters purged. Apply your math. Is 500 not 5 times more than 100? Try using a calculator 100 time 5. Please post the result here maybe in the form of a picture. :-) Let's work on that reading comprehension a little, shall we? The state sends the master list to the local election supervisors.(you know, they guys who actually work the voter registration lists) Said supervisors did their job and went through their data to find the ineligible voters and kept the eligible ones. No eligible voters were purged from the list no matter how hard you want to believe it.
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Post by duke on Jul 4, 2012 16:36:10 GMT -5
OK it did not say if the 500 were purged or not, but it leave that impression, unless you assume that the partisan election commissions would try to thwart the intents of their governor. Possibility? Imagine this: a Republican governor in a crucial battleground state instructs his secretary of state to purge the voting rolls of hundreds of thousands of allegedly ineligible voters. The move disenfranchises thousands of legally registered voters, who happen to be overwhelmingly black and Hispanic Democrats. The number of voters prevented from casting a ballot exceeds the margin of victory in the razor-thin election, which ends up determining the next President of the United States. If this scenario sounds familiar, that's because it happened in Florida in 2000. And twelve years later, just months before another presidential election, history is repeating itself. Back in 2000, 12,000 eligible voters – a number twenty-two times larger than George W. Bush's 537 vote triumph over Al Gore – were wrongly identified as convicted felons and purged from the voting rolls in Florida, according to the Brennan Center for Justice. African Americans, who favored Gore over Bush by 86 points, accounted for 11 percent of the state's electorate but 41 percent of those purged. Jeb Bush attempted a repeat performance in 2004 to help his brother win reelection but was forced to back off in the face of a public outcry. Yet with another close election looming, Florida Republicans have returned to their voter-scrubbing ways. The latest purge comes on the heels of a trio of new voting restrictions passed by Florida Republicans last year, disenfranchising 100,000 previously eligible ex-felons who'd been granted the right to vote under GOP Governor Charlie Crist in 2008; shutting down non-partisan voter registration drives; and cutting back on early voting. The measures, the effect of which will be to depress Democratic turnout in November, are similar to voting curbs passed by Republicans in more than a dozen states, on the bogus pretext of combating "voter fraud" but with the very deliberate goal of shaping the electorate to the GOP's advantage before a single vote has been cast. Florida Republicans have taken voter suppression to a brazen extreme. After the 2010 election, Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican, instructed Secretary of State Ken Browning to compile a massive database of alleged "non-citizen" voters. Browning resigned in February rather than implement Scott's plan, saying "we were not confident enough about the information for this secretary to hang his hat on it." But in early May his successor, Kurt Detzner, a former beer-industry lobbyist, announced a list of 182,000 suspected non-citizens to be removed from the voting rolls, along with 50,000 apparently dead voters. (Seven thousand alleged felons had already been scrubbed from the rolls in the first four months of 2012). On May 8, the state mailed out a first batch of 2,600 letters to Florida residents informing them, "you are not a United States citizen; however you are registered to vote." If the recipients do not reply within thirty days and affirm their U.S. citizenship, they will be dropped from the voter rolls. The first batch of names was riddled with inaccuracies. For example, as the progressive blog Think Progress noted, "an excess of 20 percent of the voters flagged as 'non-citizens' in Miami-Dade are, in fact, citizens. And the actual number may be much higher." If this ratio holds for the rest of the names on the non-citizens list, more than 35,000 eligible voters could be disenfranchised. Those alleged non-citizens have already included a 91-year-old World War II veteran who's voted since he was 18 and a 60-year-old kennel owner who has voted in the state for four decades. It's impossible to quantify how many eligible voters will be scrubbed from the rolls if they've moved, aren't home, don't have ready access to citizenship documents, or won't bother to reply to the menacing letter <snip> www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/florida-gop-takes-voter-supression-to-a-brazen-new-extreme-20120530
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Post by Fredo on Jul 4, 2012 19:05:06 GMT -5
If the list is so terribly inaccurate, we must assume that a roughly equal number of ineligible voters are being retained as well as eligible ones being purged. Instead of considering this statistical likelihood, you assume that some mean ole person is deliberately tossing grandma out of the voting booth because she might vote the wrong way.
In short, you're just making stuff up... again.
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Post by duke on Jul 4, 2012 20:31:20 GMT -5
From the top post: "And as one of the most influential Republican strategists of the last thirty years, Paul Weyirch, infamously observed – Republicans chances of winning elections go up, as the voting populace goes down."
I am NOT making anything up. It is the Republicans stating what their goal is, and how they intend to achieve that goal. I am simply posting the quotes from the Republicans. Your head is in the sand, or . . .
Prove me wrong. Apparently you are having too much trouble debunking the facts so you attack the poster. Just like Gary Poole and the Police Moderator at CMF.
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Post by duke on Jul 4, 2012 21:23:23 GMT -5
"The registration and early-voting restrictions took effect one day after the law passed, under an emergency statute designed for "an immediate danger to the public health, safety or welfare." Like the purge, the election changes were sold under the banner of "voting integrity," even though so-called voter fraud cases are virtually non-existent in Florida, as in the rest of the country. From 2008 to 2011, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement received just 31 complaints of suspected voter fraud, resulting in only three arrests statewide. "No one could give me an example of all this fraud they speak about," said Mike Fasano, a Republican state senator who opposed the new restrictions."
Great number of voter fraud numbers? 3 arrests in all of the state? Even this Republican Fasano opposes the purge process as passed and applied. If the Republicans were only interested in unlawful voters being purged, the purge would take place much earlier than is their practice.
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Post by elgusano on Jul 4, 2012 23:40:01 GMT -5
The NY Sun did a study a few years back, and when they were off the record, a very large number of people admitted to voting illegally. (Specifically, voting in both NY and FL elections.)
Unsurprisingly, democrats outnumbered republicans by about 9 to 1.
I have no problem with them ousting illegal voters.
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Post by Fredo on Jul 5, 2012 8:21:35 GMT -5
From the top post: "And as one of the most influential Republican strategists of the last thirty years, Paul Weyirch, infamously observed – Republicans chances of winning elections go up, as the voting populace goes down." I am NOT making anything up. It is the Republicans stating what their goal is, and how they intend to achieve that goal. I am simply posting the quotes from the Republicans. Your head is in the sand, or . . . Prove me wrong. Apparently you are having too much trouble debunking the facts so you attack the poster. Just like Gary Poole and the Police Moderator at CMF. This is well worn territory. The dims try to sign up every ignoramus that's dumb enough to vote for them and the reps try to get them removed. The willing dupes in the media portray it just the way you are . We've seen it all a hundred times. One need look no further than what happened to Tom Daschle when they started checking into his votes that came off the reservation to see the truth of the matter.
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Post by duke on Jul 5, 2012 20:10:20 GMT -5
I have not complained about legitimate removal, but waiting until the lat minute to remove making reinstatement or blocking removal almost impossible is certainly not honest, the repubs shout about how they are attempting to keep the vote honest. Perhaps like getting a partisan SCOTUS to block a recount, or sending the Ohio vote to A campaign donor in Chattanooga to ensure the count desired?
Yet I was roundly castigated for mentioning the Stalin quote that is the one who counts the votes that decides the election. Also see the "Battle of Athens."
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Post by elgusano on Jul 5, 2012 23:41:36 GMT -5
B1 Bob got screwed by illegal voters.
And even if they get removed "at the last minute", they can still cast a contested vote and it is counted if they can show legitimacy and it can make a difference.
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