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Post by copperhead on Aug 21, 2008 12:29:33 GMT -5
If there are four adult children in a family & only one steps up to the plate & takes responsibility when their father can no longer make decisions nor care for himself, who should be the one to make "final" decisions? My thought would be the child who stepped up to the plate & has been caring for their father.
This morning, my brother called me as we were driving in to work. He shares with me that our father passed away this morning. It was unexpected and we are having our various emotions about his death. My brother has decided to not have a funeral and to have our father cremated. I agree with my brother. One of our siblings, though, thinks otherwise. She believes there should be a funeral - not that she can or would pay for it - and is being less than kind to my brother.
Does anyone else have experience with this sort of thing? I'm restraining myself from driving down to Kennesaw & beating the pulp out of her. (This is also the sister who kicked her out daughter for being "gay" but kept the husband who molested her daughter.)
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Post by Laura Rice on Aug 21, 2008 12:34:13 GMT -5
My husband and I took care of both of his parents when they were terminally ill. My husband had 4 siblings that lived in TX. He just made it very clear to them that he would make the arrangements and do what his parents wanted. If they wanted to participate that was fine but he wasn't taking any crap from any of them about what and how things were being done. It wasn't a smooth time but none of them dared to cross him or argue. Just tell your brother to be firm but loving. ;D Sorry about your dad...
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Post by emanon on Aug 21, 2008 12:48:29 GMT -5
So sorry about your dad. But I am with you on this one. If your brother has been caring for him, his opinion should carry the most weight. Especially as he probably knew more of your dad's wishes than the sister that did not care for him. Also, the fact that you are in agreement with him speaks volumes - you have seemed to be quite levelheaded on posts. I know I don't know you personally, but your attitude can be picked up if you read enough of the posts.
And, a third reason to ignore the other sibling. Already noted is that she is the only one that wants a funeral, and she did not care for him. It *might* be different (but not really due to the previously mentioned), but if she could pay for everything that she wants done - maybe, just maybe I would consider having the funeral. But since she apparently cannot, she wants her wishes done with you and your brother to foot the bill.
I say stick to what you and your brother feel is right. If she gets mad, so be it. And I do not think your brother should feel badly. I know that is definitely easier said than done.
Good luck, and again my condolences.
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Post by raphael on Aug 21, 2008 12:50:14 GMT -5
I just went through that about 1 1/2 ago with my dad. My dad stated several times to me that he wanted to be cremated and could care less about the burial ritual. My sister however was very worried about his soul ect. There's still many people that because of various religious doctrines think cremation isn't a good thing. I had to go over with her his wishes and desires and what he thought about the physical body ect ect. I'm still not so sure that she's worried about him. It's a whole lot cheaper to be cremated and I can assure you of that one and a whole lot easier IMO. You may have your brother look into a vault to place his ashes into with his name ect on it. I'm not sure of the price but it might ease family tensions somewhat.
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Post by manlyman on Aug 21, 2008 12:51:55 GMT -5
What were your father's wishes. That should be the first priority. How about another option. My father passed just before Christmas last year. His wishes were for his remains to be sent to the UT Medical School for use by the students. They keep the remains for a year and will return his ashes (his choice) to us. And this will all be done at no charge to you, including transportation. I can only speak for UT Med. Other schools may have different policies.
p.s. Please accept my sincere condolences for your loss.
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Post by raphael on Aug 21, 2008 12:54:32 GMT -5
What were your father's wishes. That should be the first priority. How about another option. My father passed just before Christmas last year. His wishes were for his remains to be sent to the UT Medical School for use by the students. They keep the remains for a year and will return his ashes (his choice) to us. And this will all be done at no charge to you, including transportation. I can only speak for UT Med. Other schools may have different policies. p.s. Please accept my sincere condolences for your loss. My mother did this as well.
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Post by copperhead on Aug 21, 2008 12:58:27 GMT -5
Thanks. And thank you for your confidence in me. This morning she's been sticking her oar in areas that are our brother's milieu and causing problems for him as he's been making those calls himself. I don't have her telephone number and do not think it wise for me to contact her unless my brother requests that I do so.
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Post by Laura Rice on Aug 21, 2008 13:28:38 GMT -5
Thanks. And thank you for your confidence in me. This morning she's been sticking her oar in areas that are our brother's milieu and causing problems for him as he's been making those calls himself. I don't have her telephone number and do not think it wise for me to contact her unless my brother requests that I do so. One thing that I discovered going through all that, as not a blood member of the family, was that if I answered the phone they would immediately try to drag me into it. The less contact I had with them the better for both of us. ;D You are making wise choices and that will do wonders of support for your brother.
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Post by bignana on Aug 21, 2008 13:51:50 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about your Dad. But you and your brother should do what you think is right and that your dad would have wanted. Hugs to you.
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Post by Fredo on Aug 21, 2008 14:55:37 GMT -5
He who writes the checks makes the decisions. I'm sure you guys would be agreeable to a funeral if she would foot the bill.
I find that when I put things that way, I get more agreement faster.
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Post by ths81 on Aug 21, 2008 15:03:29 GMT -5
I'm sorry for your loss Copperhead. I agree with the others - I think whatever wishes your father had should take precedence but if he left no instructions, then I would think your brother should make the final decisions.
Has your sister mentioned why it's so important to her to have a funeral? It doesn't sound like she's had much to do with your father lately.
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Post by newuser on Aug 21, 2008 18:59:18 GMT -5
Copperhead, first I'm very sorry for your loss. I lost my dad ten years ago. Logistically, I was closer than either of my sisters, so I helped mother make decisions. When my grandparents died, we all talked about how nice it was that no one in our family was being the difficult one.
But, when my mother-in-law died, that was a different story. There was arguments about every single decision. I think it's important that your Dad's wishes be honored first, if anyone knows what he might have wanted. Past that, the one closest to him should be the one to make decisions.
I admire your restraint in not confronting your sister. I know how hard that is. So sorry you are having to go through this drama in addition to the loss of your father.
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Post by copperhead on Aug 21, 2008 20:30:29 GMT -5
You all have stated your points so well that I sent my brother a link to see what the folks in Fredoland have to say. We haven't started our own message board yet.
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Post by Smilin' Jack on Aug 21, 2008 21:10:34 GMT -5
So sorry to hear of your father's passing. May fond memories of him ease your sorrow at this difficult time.
You have indeed gotten some good ideas and sound advice from folks that have been there.
Sounds like your brother was closest, with the best sense of what your father would have wanted.
Perhaps your sister would like to honor her father with a special memorial service at some later date. This would allow your brother to take care of the things that need to be done now, and the time for her to plan whatever she has in mind.
In fact, each of you may take some comfort in doing something special in his memory at a place and time as appropriate. It could be the planting of a tree, a donation in his memory to a cause that was important to him or something else that has meaning for each of you and that will be a special reminder of your father and his life.
He may be gone, but never, ever, forgotten.
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Post by atticflea on Aug 21, 2008 22:20:06 GMT -5
You can rent a casket for a funeral, then go through with the cremation. If he (Dad) didn't request a place to be scattered, then have a burial. I've scattered two friends into the Tn River from the Walnut St. Bridge unbeknown to them (I'm sure they're fine with it). All in all it was still a funeral.
Sorry for your loss and I hope it works out.
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Post by bignana on Aug 22, 2008 8:21:48 GMT -5
So sorry to hear of your father's passing. May fond memories of him ease your sorrow at this difficult time. You have indeed gotten some good ideas and sound advice from folks that have been there. Sounds like your brother was closest, with the best sense of what your father would have wanted. Perhaps your sister would like to honor her father with a special memorial service at some later date. This would allow your brother to take care of the things that need to be done now, and the time for her to plan whatever she has in mind. In fact, each of you may take some comfort in doing something special in his memory at a place and time as appropriate. It could be the planting of a tree, a donation in his memory to a cause that was important to him or something else that has meaning for each of you and that will be a special reminder of your father and his life. He may be gone, but never, ever, forgotten. Smilin' Jack always comes in with the voice of reason. Good advice.
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Post by CoffeeShooter on Aug 22, 2008 15:59:17 GMT -5
I'm sorry for your loss.
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Post by kalgirl on Aug 22, 2008 20:33:55 GMT -5
My sincerest condolences Copperhead. Unfortunately, it seems many here have lived through very similar experiences, myself included. I hope you & your brother made the arrangements to your dad's wishes. IMHO, that is as it should be.
With all due respect, at this point, your sister be damned.
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Post by copperhead on Aug 23, 2008 21:23:18 GMT -5
The details, at least as of this moment: Cremation will occur at the funeral home in Virginia. The cremains will be sent here for interrment at the National Cemetery. My sister & my other brother are in charge of planning this & dealing with any costs that may arise. I get to be a spectator. I'm good with that.
It is surreal that my toddler, who never knew his grandfathers, will be able to visit their graves every time we come to the cemetery. I'm still trying to process all of this - thank you all for your kind words and thoughts.
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Post by angelheart on Aug 29, 2008 16:38:21 GMT -5
I am so sorry for your loss copperhead. I looked after my invalid mother for years before she died. I knew more about her than my other siblings, as we were very close. She told me when her time comes, she would want to be cremated and her ashes spread somewhere beautiful. I bought one of those wills in an office supply store and wrote down everything she wanted done. Then I had her sign it thinking my brothers and sisters would give me trouble. I'm the youngest of 8 kids. And my intuition was correct, because my brother did not want my mom cremated, even though I showed him in writing what my mom wanted done. I fought for my mom's right to have her last wishes kept, but sadly she didn't get everything she wanted. Since my brother was paying for it, he agreed to have her cremated but instead of spreading her ashes as she wanted, he put them in an urn and in the ground. It does hurt when there is arguments about burying your parents, on top of the grief. I firmly believe to honor what your father wanted, and let anyone else who disagrees with it to "buzz off". God Bless you and your family in this time of sorrow.
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Post by sugarcane on Aug 29, 2008 17:56:42 GMT -5
I am sorry for your loss.
Some people need a funeral to say goodbye. They feel very strongly about it.
I hate to hear that your family is arguing at this time. I hope you can all pull together in the end to provide each other comfort.
Best wishes.
Sugar
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Post by copperhead on Aug 30, 2008 22:17:09 GMT -5
Sugar, the arguments stopped after I shared some of the insights I read here with my brother. Our siblings will be planning a service at the national cemetery here in mid-September. My brother & I aren't planning to attend at this time.
The obituary was published on Wednesday & I'm glad I was home when I read it. It made it more real. I'm still processing it all.
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