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Post by kordax on Aug 11, 2008 22:51:58 GMT -5
How long should a kid spend doing their daily homework to adequately prepared for class the next day? Education reformers pre-NCLB believed that homework time was one of the indicators of a quality education -- the more time required to complete daily assignments (within reason), the better the SOL's (Standards of Learning) a particular skool embraced.
An hour good enough? 2 hours? 3? 4? More? Two of my kids studied at least 6 hours a day in HS -- both were straight A students. Another studied a couple of hours (sometimes less) and was an A/B student.
Area private school faculty work with parents far more extensively & consistently than any of the public skools are willing to do; the privates coach parents as to where their children should study in the house, under what conditions, how long each day, the parents' roles in helping their kids are defined & the faculty constantly offers updates every week (sometimes more) as to how each kid is preparing & studying for class & they make constructive improvement suggestions.
The reason I bring this up is because Mayor Ramsey is calling on Hamilton Co Public Skools to re-envision themselves or something touchie feelie like that. Why? Because VW has some lower level jobs a that handful of local HS grads might get every year. But if homework was finally taken seriously instead of the minimal stuff many teachers assign (many kids with lazy teachers are purposely given time set aside in class to do their next day's homework), a serous approach might cure a lot of our current low expectation ills.....
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Post by 502blue on Aug 12, 2008 7:11:15 GMT -5
I have never minded doing the "homework" in class. The problem I always had was trying to make the teacher understand how important it was that the "homework/classwork" was brought home even if it was finished. This way I could check the homework and see where the weakness' were or if it was even understood. NEVER could get a teacher to understand that, even though they would all agree and say they will tell the kids they have to take it home. My son takes what a teachers says literally. If that teacher did not tell them to bring home the work, then he didn't. I could tell him all I wanted, but, I apparently am not the boss when it comes to school work, the teacher is. Well, he's in high school now, so we shall see the differences.
The "national" society of blah and blah, I know, once put a study out, stating kids should not have more than an hours worth of work a night. I tend to agree with that. Especially with the younger kids. They get frustrated. Plus, if the subject is taught in full in class, not much homework needed aside from commiting it to memory. Sadly the subjects aren't taught in full, because the teachers have to prepare the students for the dumb down no child left behind tests. I'm also with school board member Kenny Smith, I really think this area needs another vocational school. Not every kid is made for college or the norms of high school.
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Post by slobberchops on Aug 12, 2008 7:35:56 GMT -5
I feel as a parent and 2 kids going to middle school, that a enormous amount is being placed on the parent to play a more academic role in teaching their children.. rather than being a parent, social time with family and home responsibilities. I dont want to teach math.. I'm a mom not a school teacher. So it's difficult for me to make the transition. Meany school master to Mom... And with the poverty levels being as high as they are in public school system.. half those parents are NOT able to teach school related materials. Defeats the purpose of "public education". When you force feed a child.. there's no learning involved. Drill and Kill--- Its squashes what interest might have been there.. to overkill. They're only teaching to pass tests now anyways.. its all about funding and not really learning, or even promoting the self-education process. IMO-from my experience. *yeah.. they hate to see me coming. LMAO!! But I volunteer, donate and do whatever it takes to help them -- teach my child to learn academics.... let me handle the rest of the stuff. (like character, morals, virtues, drugs, alcohol and sex. )
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Post by copperhead on Aug 12, 2008 8:45:41 GMT -5
Slobberchops, I disagree. One of the responsiblities of being a parent, though, is educating their child(ren). If the teacher hasn't provided enough math instruction to my child, I'm more than happy to help her. Granted, I'm not thrilled that her teacher isn't reaching my child but I also understand that it's a team effort. I know my child better than the teachers do. I know most of her strengths and weaknesses. I know that she's not challenged in some areas and it's my job to make sure she has the education she needs. If I wasn't capable of helping her, I'd find the help she needs. I have another child who will need just as much care to keep him from getting too bored in school.
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Post by newuser on Aug 12, 2008 9:47:11 GMT -5
Teachers should by definition, teach. Homework should be an extension of what has been learned in class, such as practice on solving math problems using a math rule taught in class. Parents should be involved in the homework process, as far as knowing what is going on and helping identify any problems the child is having. In a perfect world, the child should be able to go to the teacher and express any problems they are having, and get the necessary help in explanation. This is where there is a breakdown. Either the kids won't talk to the teacher or the teacher won't help the child with individual needs. The amount of time spent on homework should be proportionate to the child's age. Younger children should have no more than an hour's worth of homework, and older students up to two hours. Past two hours, either the student is struggling and doesn't understand the work or they have too much homework.
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Post by duke on Aug 12, 2008 10:10:22 GMT -5
Time 'required' to learn varies greatly with the individual and the subject at hand.
Except where the goal is to teach the kids how to study on their own, homework for the sake of time consumption can quickly breed contempt for school or a particular teacher/subject.
IOW not all subjects should require out of class time as a hard and fast rule.
In a corporate technical school setting I did not take books home to study, doing all study during class time. Even with a 98%+ average test score and alternating between #1 and #2 in the class, the instructor started demanding I carry the books home 'to set a good example.' Why?
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Post by slobberchops on Aug 12, 2008 10:30:27 GMT -5
Maybe I wasn't very clear in regards to my view on "helping" with and supporting homework.. especially if my children are unsure or need extra attention in one area. For me personally, that aspect is a given as parent who wants to see their child succeed. I used to think thats the entire purpose of homework. And I'm all for supporting and helping the children. I volunteered at the school the last 2 years, to come in and help read to those who need additional help.
But what I'm talking about is the actual instruction to chapter lessons..only to be graded the next day by teachers. Whereas, it used to be the opposite way around. IMO They are trying to throw as much info at they can at the children because they know whats going to be on the state tests the upcoming year. I'm sorry but teaching division in 1st grade is mind-boggling to me. Or skipping over sounds of the letters and going straight to sight words - makes the old record scratch. No wonder more children are failing or deemed behavior problems by the time 1st grade starts. Our learning foundation is being held up by lets hope it "sticks" rather than concrete solid confidence.
Look, my brother and sister both have children that do not attend public school but are at private schools based on scholarships. little brainiacs , they are. I unfortunately have a child that was diagnosed "learning disabled".. through an independent psychological evaluation. The psychologist's findings were : 3rd grade/ IQ=118 Logically, he's smarter than the top 10% of kids his age,, but he sufferers from a small cognitive impairment with the onset of anxiety. He requires a little more time than the average person to finish assignments. They took every recess in the 2nd grade away from my child.. because he wasnt able to finished his work. They said he was poking around waisting time.. fiddle farting. This was what he needed. Discipline! I was so stern with him.. thinking the teachers were more experienced in this area, rather than trusting my mothers gut and knowing my child was not a fiddle farting spiteful strong willed- kid. So, when I was given the results of his testing... it was very heart-breaking for me. (on so many levels... you can't imagine)
This is test anxiety and the fear of mistakes being deemed FAILURE. We're talking 3rd grade people! Elementary school... If I had any patience, I would home school. But I feel I may do more harm than good. But, I'm pre schooling my daughter. She's going to private. Public is not longer an optional risk, I'm willing to take on our last child. GPS--all the way, ladies! It's a wonderful school for young girls. My niece goes there.. and I love it's motto. And the fact they work on the honor system and not like some prison or militant "institution for way-ward children".
All this is not to say that I haven't met some beautiful teachers through-out my kids' school-years. Because I have. They help me salvage my boys education! I owe them much more than a few measly hours at the school a week. These great teachers teach for the love of learning. But there are some ...and gaining in #'s.. just there to a pay check with summers off.
Most of our Greats are deciding to leave our kids behind.. because of the BS-bureaucracy. ( especially since the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND.. ) what irony, huh?
Thats how I feel. I hope it doesn't offend anyone. *sniff sniff
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Post by kordax on Aug 12, 2008 10:42:15 GMT -5
The amount of time spent on homework should be proportionate to the child's age.
Great point -- spot on. Kids who want to do more at home at younger ages have options like spelling bee & geography contests that require out-of-classroom prep.
Younger children should have no more than an hour's worth of homework, and older students up to two hours.
I agree with the young/old dichotomy but your time slots seem too light. 2 hours a day seems minimal to me ....
Past two hours, either the student is struggling and doesn't understand the work or they have too much homework.
I'd say this is wrong thinking. The kids I know through my own kids more often than not went to competitive colleges & universities where students came from top tier public & private schools throughout the country. Most public & all the private school kids were way ahead of Chattanooga grads in that they had more foreign language instruction, far more English Lit exposure, far more assigned books that were read either as class assignments or summer reading, and more advanced math & science as a rule. HS students take 5 courses a semester (sometimes 4) and having an hour's worth of homework per subject was common for these kids in HS. Transitioning from HS to college was fairly easy for the kids who were used to studying 4-5 hours a day in HS, but kids who didn't come to college with that type of work ethic struggled big time until they got with the program or dropped out.
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Post by copperhead on Aug 12, 2008 11:28:17 GMT -5
Slobberchops, I see your point. I agree.
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Post by slobberchops on Aug 12, 2008 12:33:13 GMT -5
My older brothers gave my parents such a hard way to go in school... that I kinda slid under the radar. It was like:... she's making good grades so we'll focus on the others. I rarely did homework, never studied for a single test and still managed to graduate with a B+ average. Although, I have no regrets.. I sometimes wonder how far or high, would I of gone...if I had the kind of parents that were "drenched" in my academic future. Totally on my own.. I had one HappY year staying in the valley at Penn State. LMAO!! Unfortunately, economics forced me to move back home ,work full time and earn my AAS, -- thru night school at Chattanooga State. All this came from self-promoting.. not any type of pushing or encouragement what-SO-ever from my parents. Isn't that the major goal with public education ... to entice a pupils mind with the desire to learn more.. and "think" about the endless possibilities that come with it? I dont know... I'm lucky I guess. I must of had some pretty good teachers in my early years.
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Post by slobberchops on Aug 12, 2008 12:40:25 GMT -5
Copper: Ya know, if every parent took that kind of approach, the one you & I do in regards to homework.. school - academics... There probably wouldn't be a need for homework.
After volunteering at the school... I've seen some pretty lame crap coming from parents these days. (sad stuff -- really) It's probably just a flash of what school teachers see and hear.
Give a child just 10 minutes of your full attention, and you would be amazed at all the "stuff" that flies out. *oooooga eyes
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Post by newuser on Aug 12, 2008 15:50:58 GMT -5
I guess putting a exact time limit on appropriate homework time is difficult. I know in my own school days, I had some classes that required a lot of hours at home, and some didn't require any. Some projects may take long hours. As an average, I would think any one assignment that requires more than two hours is probably too much for the student for some reason. Either too much work, not enough done during class, or the student is having trouble comprehending. Every parent and/or teacher has to figure out with each case what is appropriate and whether there is a problem.
Telling my age, I think the classes that took the most time at home were my shorthand exercises.
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Post by sugarcane on Aug 12, 2008 18:29:08 GMT -5
I think the kids should spend as long as it takes them to finish it. I don't think there should be a limit but I also believe that teachers should be mindful and not pile on more homework than is reasonable. What I mean by that is that an hour of homework every single night for every single class isn't very reasonable in my mind. Yeah, maybe some nights have an hour for different classes but any individual teacher shouldn't pile it on every single night. There needs to be a balance and the child's age should also be taken into consideration. A first grader shouldn't have to spend as much time on homework as a high schooler.
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Post by sugarcane on Aug 12, 2008 18:29:49 GMT -5
Oops. Looks like I repeated what some others have said. That is what I get for reading only the original post and not the responses.
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Post by sugarcane on Aug 12, 2008 18:31:32 GMT -5
I feel as a parent and 2 kids going to middle school, that a enormous amount is being placed on the parent to play a more academic role in teaching their children.. rather than being a parent, social time with family and home responsibilities. I dont want to teach math.. I'm a mom not a school teacher. So it's difficult for me to make the transition. Meany school master to Mom... And with the poverty levels being as high as they are in public school system.. half those parents are NOT able to teach school related materials. Defeats the purpose of "public education". When you force feed a child.. there's no learning involved. Drill and Kill--- Its squashes what interest might have been there.. to overkill. They're only teaching to pass tests now anyways.. its all about funding and not really learning, or even promoting the self-education process. IMO-from my experience. *yeah.. they hate to see me coming. LMAO!! But I volunteer, donate and do whatever it takes to help them -- teach my child to learn academics.... let me handle the rest of the stuff. (like character, morals, virtues, drugs, alcohol and sex. ) You don't want to teach them math, eh? How about taking responsibility for your kids education instead of putting it off on others? They are your kids after all. Homework help IS family time in my mind because the parent is spending time with the child.
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Post by sugarcane on Aug 12, 2008 18:41:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry but teaching division in 1st grade is mind-boggling to me. Or skipping over sounds of the letters and going straight to sight words - makes the old record scratch. Dolch sight words are very important to a child learning to read. These 220 words appear more often than any other words in children's books and many of them are NOT phonetic. A child must learn to be proficient in these words to be successful in reading. My kids are 3 and I have already started teaching the words to them. Don't take my word on sight words. Do some of your own research. You said your child has a learning disability. That is even more reason for you to be helping him at home and not complaining about it. Teachers do not have super powers. Having 20-25 kids to teach is not an easy task and it is unfair to the others to spend a majority of work time with one child. I do agree that it was wrong of the teacher to take your child's recess away every single day. If you think GPS will give any less homework than a public school, you are in for a rude awakening.
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Post by sugarcane on Aug 12, 2008 18:43:34 GMT -5
My older brothers gave my parents such a hard way to go in school... that I kinda slid under the radar. It was like:... she's making good grades so we'll focus on the others. I rarely did homework, never studied for a single test and still managed to graduate with a B+ average. Although, I have no regrets.. I sometimes wonder how far or high, would I of gone...if I had the kind of parents that were "drenched" in my academic future. Totally on my own.. I had one HappY year staying in the valley at Penn State. LMAO!! Unfortunately, economics forced me to move back home ,work full time and earn my AAS, -- thru night school at Chattanooga State. All this came from self-promoting.. not any type of pushing or encouragement what-SO-ever from my parents. Isn't that the major goal with public education ... to entice a pupils mind with the desire to learn more.. and "think" about the endless possibilities that come with it? I dont know... I'm lucky I guess. I must of had some pretty good teachers in my early years. The major goal of public education is to teach kids how to read, write, and do mathematics so they can be productive members of society.
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Post by kordax on Aug 12, 2008 20:42:13 GMT -5
Sugar, do you believe that HS kids (9-12) benefit from having larger homework assignments subject by subject than most of Hamilton Co's skool chulr'n are asked to do? And more homework assigned as the grade level increases?
Putting more emphasis on homewaork requires higher level skill sets from current teachers -- more grading, more daily feedback to students, more regular feedback to the parents -- my experience from family & their friends is that homework is a major key to future success....
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Post by slobberchops on Aug 12, 2008 22:53:31 GMT -5
You don't want to teach them math, eh? How about taking responsibility for your kids education instead of putting it off on others? I didn't say I didn't want to teach my kids math. What I want vs. what I expect vs. what I get from the 7hrs. of academic training spent with my child daily does not equal nor add up to either one. So you do the math... LOL Dolch sight words are very important to a child learning to read. These 220 words appear more often than any other words in children's books and many of them are NOT phonetic. A child must learn to be proficient in these words to be successful in reading. My kids are 3 and I have already started teaching the words to them.
I hope I didn't give you the wrong impression. I've educated myself fully to understand my childs cognitive disability. He's has a very high IQ average. Top 10%. Dont let him fool ya.. LMAO! He's clever and charming to boot... it just takes him longer to retrieve information from memory. That is all. (clear) He can not "split-second" stuff. Especially timed stuff. He was diagnosed at the age of 8. He's now in Jr.High, and has always remained / maintained in normal classes with a C or higher. He's worked very hard. And I'm SuPeR proud of him. ;D Don't take my word on sight words. Do some of your own research. Thanks, I do appreciate the website. That was very kind. I have a 3-4 year old.. so later it will be helpful. My sister has her certification in A Beka-program. Most private and home schools use this curriculum. She taught all her three of her kids to read before the age of 3 so.. I'm leaning toward her for help.. .with my last child. ;D She's good. And my girl is doing great. ** You said your child has a learning disability. That is even more reason for you to be helping him at home and not complaining about it. Teachers do not have super powers. Having 20-25 kids to teach is not an easy task and it is unfair to the others to spend a majority of work time with one child. Ummm....I dont really know what this wacked super powers and complaining stuff is all about... but dont. Because, I seriously doubt you would tolerate me speaking to you in this manner/tone regarding your children. And I just wouldn't.. it's in poor taste. If you think GPS will give any less homework than a public school, you are in for a rude awakening. LOL but homework.. has 0 factor in my considering GPS for our daughter. I listed my reason for GPS as my private school choice. Actually 2 reasons.. should you care to RE-read. Gosh.. you dedicated so many posts all off the opinions of mine. Each child is different Shug.. hopefully we want the best for all kids. I dont think piling on more hours of homework is going to reach the kids it's intended for. Those parents aren't putting in the amount of time required to be a parent.. let alone a real valiant effort in school teaching. I was merely stating my opinion and experience in the public school system. Granted, my childs case is different... but I also have another child attending school as well. So I am no stranger to both sides of this situation. Do you have children in public schools? The major goal of public education is to teach kids how to read, write, and do mathematics so they can be productive members of society. Is that all it takes?...well, I know lots of scum-bag career criminals that can read, write and do math.. The jails are full of them. That entire post insults the intelligence of a true teacher.. And any decent one will TELL YOU THAT! Cold much?
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Post by sugarcane on Aug 13, 2008 7:28:45 GMT -5
Sugar, do you believe that HS kids (9-12) benefit from having larger homework assignments subject by subject than most of Hamilton Co's skool chulr'n are asked to do? And more homework assigned as the grade level increases? Putting more emphasis on homewaork requires higher level skill sets from current teachers -- more grading, more daily feedback to students, more regular feedback to the parents -- my experience from family & their friends is that homework is a major key to future success.... I think that the amount of homework is directly related to the skill/subject being taught and how quickly the class is catching on to what is being taught. It's not just about age or grade. That being said, it does stand to reason that older children would have more homework. I think it is good. It teaches them good study skills and self discipline. Both are important for college. As I already mentioned, I don't think they should be bombarded every single night. If a teacher gives an hour's worth of homework for several days straight, he/she needs to be aware of that and cut the kids some slack for a day or two as well. Some subjects require more homework. For example, the best way to learn algebra is practice. However, a liberal arts class would not always require as much homework. Also, people need to keep in mind some kids might finish a homework assignment in 15 minutes while others might take an hour on the same assignment. It's all relative to the student's abilities.
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Post by newuser on Aug 13, 2008 8:25:33 GMT -5
One thing I did learn the hard way was that as a parent I had to follow up with the teachers myself about any concerns. A 7th grader is not necessarily a reliable source of information! It's a hard job to get kids through school. It is a good way to spend some time with your student and it seems clear that kids with parental involvement do better in school. My kids had some really good teachers who wanted to teach and they had some who wanted an easy job.
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Post by kordax on Aug 13, 2008 8:28:48 GMT -5
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Post by copperhead on Aug 13, 2008 8:44:25 GMT -5
Kordax, very interesting reading. A number of parents at our school are considering a meeting with our principal to help our students continue to be competitive in the international educational environment. I am personally concerned that we do not require enough of our young people as they work their way through high school.
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Post by slobberchops on Aug 13, 2008 9:01:28 GMT -5
Kordax, very interesting reading. A number of parents at our school are considering a meeting with our principal to help our students continue to be competitive in the international educational environment. I am personally concerned that we do not require enough of our young people as they work their way through high school. I totally agree with your last statement Copper. It does seem to get a little lax as the grades go by especially if the "requirements" are met early on. -- IMO
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Post by sugarcane on Aug 13, 2008 11:25:33 GMT -5
I didn't say I didn't want to teach my kids math. YES YOU DIDI hope I didn't give you the wrong impression. I've educated myself fully to understand my childs cognitive disability. He's has a very high IQ average. Top 10%. Dont let him fool ya.. LMAO! He's clever and charming to boot... it just takes him longer to retrieve information from memory. That is all. (clear) He can not "split-second" stuff. Especially timed stuff. He was diagnosed at the age of 8. He's now in Jr.High, and has always remained / maintained in normal classes with a C or higher. He's worked very hard. And I'm SuPeR proud of him. ;D What does this have to do with sight words?Ummm....I dont really know what this wacked super powers and complaining stuff is all about... but dont. Because, I seriously doubt you would tolerate me speaking to you in this manner/tone regarding your children. And I just wouldn't.. it's in poor taste. The truth hurts sometimes. Somebody needed to set you straight. LOL but homework.. has 0 factor in my considering GPS for our daughter. I listed my reason for GPS as my private school choice. Actually 2 reasons.. should you care to RE-read. This thread is ABOUT homework so naturally I tied your statement in with the subject at hand. Do you have children in public schools? I was a teacher in public schools for more than my fair share of years. Additionally, I hold a Bachelor of Science in Human Learning in addition to my master's degree. What exactly are your qualifications on the bad information you are espousing in this thread? The major goal of public education is to teach kids how to read, write, and do mathematics so they can be productive members of society. Is that all it takes?...well, I know lots of scum-bag career criminals that can read, write and do math.. The jails are full of them. That entire post insults the intelligence of a true teacher.. And any decent one will TELL YOU THAT! Cold much? Your expectation of the public school system is way off base or you don't understand my statement, one of the two.
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